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Joan Markland Says:

well the article explains everything execpt WHAT THE LIMITATIONS ARE??????

Posted on April 04, 2005

David Says:

It’s sort of become a non-issue at this point. Sure, it is a non-issue until a user has someting go wrong. Then it becomes a major issue for the customer.

Let’s see how well Adobe deals with a situation like this: The user’s hard drive fails so he has to re-install his software causing a new activation of Photoshop which is accepted. About three weeks later the new hard drive fails requiring yet another installation and activation - which is rejected.

This happened to me in November and Microsoft accused me of stealing Windows. I offered to fax the paperwork I’d done with Seagate to get warranty replacements and the ‘customer service’ representative told me that wasn’t sufficient. I talked to his supervisor who said she’d have to check and promised a callback that never came. Two days later I tried again and finally got a service rep who treated me properly. Of course it wasn’t the first person I talked to that day.

Piracy is a problem, no doubt, but systems that put the customer in the wrong from the get-go are bound to cause trouble that companies can ill afford. My experience with Microsoft has already led me to look into alternatives. I may be forced to use Windows but I have many applications alternatives. That’s where you’ll find me - as Microsoft free as possible. I guess I’ll wait and see how Adobe’s customer service goes before we upgrade to CS 2.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Peter Gonzales Says:

I was sure that I was going to upgrade to CS 2 as soon as it became available—in May.  This changes everything.  Now, I feel quite strongly that I will stay away from CS 2 for as long as possible, and that hopefully means forever.  Good bye Adobe.  Hello Graphic Converter and Pages and whatever else will allow me to reinstall things when my hard drive dies (like all hard drives inevitably do, sooner or later) without having to talk to someone reading a script to me over the telephone from New Delhi.  Adios Adobe.  P.G.

Posted on April 04, 2005

hldan Says:

I echo the same comments about the issue where I may have to reformat my HD or install the lastest upcoming version of Mac OSX Tiger. I have already activated Photoshop CS2 then I am required to activate again due to reinstalling the software. I am now blocked stating that this software has already been activated. Bummer. I would be really pissed for the inconvenience.

Another thing, this issue about software piracy would greatly reduce and increase more paying consumers if the software was of a fair price. Adobe creative suite is iver $1200.00. Photoshop CS was over $600 last year. The upgrades are more than $200. I have more than one computer in home and I shouldn’t be forced to buy more than one copy just to avoid the activation issue.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Teton Says:

Like it or not, Piracy benefits Adobe. It’s a necessary evil that spreads use, promotes use and makes a “standard”. You lock it down and sales will suffer, use will evaporate and angry customers will be everywhere. Serial numbers are fine, they lessen outright abuse, but “activation” is the death knell of a company’s software.

Piracy has made you strong Adobe, why do you want to fade away by bad policy.

Bye Adobe!

Posted on April 04, 2005

Steve Self Says:

Yeah… Adobe forcing me to buy two versions of InDesign CS2 and Photoshop CS2 just so I can view a document I am working on while on the road and using my travel PB12” - IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS.  I bought the software. I cannot use two copies at the same time - yet limiting me to just my desktop is completely annoying.

At least Macromedia allows me to run activated version of DW, FW, F on both machines.

I have been a loyal photoshop user since version1, but CS(1) will be my last. Now I understand the value of Apple’s adding all those image manipulation tweeks to the OS… Too bad I will not be getting excited about all the new advanced features in CS2.

I look forward to Pages becoming a real layout app. Maybe by ver 3? And iPhoto or some other app becoming at least as good as PS-LE.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Umm hmmm Says:

So......when this new scheme works so well, Adobe won’t be able to claim so much $ lost due to piracy, right?  So my Adobe CS 3 version will only cost me $199 for the entire suite since Adobe successfully stamped out piracy and now can pass that big discount on to me, the consumer, right? 

Sort of like offshoring jobs.  These companies send American jobs overseas to save money.  Where’s my savings passed on to me as the customer?  The prices stay the same or increase and more Americans are out of jobs..not to mention product support and quality (India, China) is really really poor.

So CEO’s get bigger paychecks, while employees and customers suffer.

Posted on April 04, 2005

gis Says:

This sounds like a huge hassle and a good reason to stick w the old version of CS. Anyone know what happens if you change computers? If you move hard disks between computers? I work sometimes in my office sometimes at home sometimes in a studio in the orchard sometimes on the road. Does this me I’ll have to lug a desktop with me? buy 6 copies of CS which will never be used concurrently ((I’ll be damned first) or find alternatives (most likely).  Yea by,by Adobe looks likely.  And I’m a 1000 series Photosop license holder.

Posted on April 04, 2005

dave Says:

I was excited about the new package until I saw this.  I switched from the Adobe suite to the Macromedia Suite about 3-4 years ago.  When MX 04 came out I upgraded to find the new activation process.  Macromedia had not worked the bugs out, and I had nightmare problems for months.  For example when I was having serious QT issues, I tried to archive and install my system.  Unfortunately that seriously hosed my Macromedia accounts.  The apps didn’t recognize the the authorizations, and I couldn’t de-authorize the machine because I couldn’t launch the program.  I was also unable to de-authorize from another machine.  The nice people in India and the Philipines were no help either when I called Macromedia for help (no joke).  I nearly lost a major project because of all of this.  I swore I would never use software with that kind of activation again.  I hate being treated like a criminal. 

The irony is that to avoid future problems, I searched and downloaded the cracked versions of the problem apps.  They work fine, and I don’t feel bad because A. I bought the damn things and B. I am the only one who ever uses the apps on the different machines.  I don’t mind serial numbers, but this is just greed.  Adobe and Macromedia are both profitable companies, and have been for a long time.  So this is about maximizing profits, not preventing piracy.  This also has made me research open source apps, and learn how to program in Cocoa.  Wouldn’t it be nice to have a Core Image enabled, open source, Cocoa based Photoshop replacement.  Hum, maybe I’ll get to work…

Posted on April 04, 2005

Joshua Byers Says:

Teton you do not bother to cite one empircial example of piracy promoting the use of a product nor makes it a standard.  Likewise, you do not bother to show any evidence about “activation” being the death knell of a company’s software.  No evidence, no evidence.  No evidence = moron.

Activation works.  Need evidence?

2001 Microsoft Corp. released Windows XP.  In 2001 MS’s windows had approximately 90% of the computer market share.  In the 4 years since MS introduced activation MS’s windows is still at approximately 90% of the market with activation in their OS.

I would imagine the same can be said of MS office.

So tell me.  How exactly can you postulate activation doesn’t work?  its an out right lie.

I cannot blame any company big or small for protecting their intellectual property.  It is after all their property.  They have a right to charge what they like and to choose how they allow their product to be used.  People steal their property and the government has thus far taken no serious action to curtail the continuous theft.  Therefore companies decided to take matters into their own hands, defending their property with activation.  I can’t blame them for doing so, i’d do the same if i were in their position.

Think before you speak.

Posted on April 04, 2005

dave Says:

Josh, you make some good arguments except for one problem.  You said

“They have a right to charge what they like and to choose how they allow their product to be used”

While the first part is true, the second part is not, and is down right dabgerous.  No company in American history has ever been able to dictate how you use their product once you purchase it.  I don’t think software companies should be any different.

You might want to think a little longer too…

Posted on April 04, 2005

Jay Says:

I’m in the Activation is BAD camp. I am not a pirate and I don’t like being treated as one. Graphic Converter is a good model to follow. $25.00 for the initial purchase 6 years ago and only one upgrade since then for another $25.00 2 years ago.  Ihave never had to pay for incremental upgrades and GraphicConverter has improved greatly in the years I have been using it.

Adobe, Microsoft, and Macromedia all try to have a major upgrade every year or two. Unfortunately, they charge WAY TOO MUCH for their products to start with and each upgrade is too expensive as well.  I figure that I can upgrade to every third version for the “full retail price” and save money. I don’t see Major improvements with each version. Especially, with Microsoft Office products. The entire pricing model is based on corporate users and does not allow the “average” user to own the products without significant hardship.

The Microsoft Student/Teacher versions of the Office suite are a good example of how to sell products to NON-CORPORATE users.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Steve Self Says:

Leaping to forecasting the death knell of Adobe is a bit of a reach. But stating one’s preference for a more open activation plan is useful. The days of one-man-one-computer are over. Many of us use multiple cpu’s and should not be gouged for that convenience. I think the bean-counters in these software firms are working overtime to raise the quarterly profits...Gotta pay for those fancy Bahamas company retreats. Automatic software updating worked, so why not net based activation? Perhaps this too shall pass. Maybe if enough of us do not upgrade, Adobe’s quarterly profits will be so down they will quietly adjust the licensing to serve their clients rather than serving the yearly bonus.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Soon 2 B Former Adobe User Says:

That’s it: no more Adobe for me.
Besides being a major hassle when reformatting an HD, for me it boils down to an attitude thing: Adobe’s bad attitude.
Moreover, it’s one step closer to the day when everything creative we do has to be “authorized” by a corporation. Stalin could only have dreamed of such an invasive, permissions-based world…

Posted on April 04, 2005

Teton Says:

For Joshua Byers:

I’ve been around piracy since the apple // days.

The moment a company decides to “protect” a program, it’s LIGHTS OUT for that firm.

A company needs to realize piracy is another form of “advertising"… there is a cost to doing business, and piracy is an acceptable and “needed” expense.

Yes, MS is a bit different in that they hold a monopoly on the OS so they can choose activation to make them rich. But with MS Office for the Mac, there is no activation, which they know would be the end of their revenue stream if they ever tried to invoke such means.

As a programmer, you’ve gotta get your code into as many hands as possible, again the second you lock it down hard, is the moment you cease to exist. Serial numbers are fine, but activation. NO!

I know, I know it takes higher level thinking to understand this, but hopefully you’ve now learned what it takes to make a successful software product.

Again, Adobe is STRONG because of piracy. If they would of implemented “Activation” when Illustrator or Photoshop was at 1.0, you would of never heard of Adobe Inc.

Those are the Facts from 28 years of observation.

Teton

Posted on April 04, 2005

Bill Stiteler Says:

That should be “pervasive” form of piracy, not “pursuasive.” Unless the piracy itself is convincing people to do it.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Graphsurfer Says:

Steve Self hit the nail on the head when he commented the days of one-man-to-one-computer are over. I have a G5, two G4s, and a powerbook. I upgrade alot..and wipe out hard drives and redo them alot....this will be a major pain when this takes affect.
I’m the only one using the program...I should be able to use it on any computer I own.

I’m not upgrading my adobe products anymore, I can still make money with the ones I own now. Also, if they’re upgrading they should make a better program, Illustrator CS is a dog compared to Illustrator 10.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Larry Says:

Implementing the product activation definitely makes me less likely to upgrade.  But according to the FAQ on it, you can install the software on 2 machines (primary computer & laptop).  You can also transfer your activation from 1 machine to another.  Also, it claims that as long as you don’t do a low-level reformat, it won’t require a reactivation.

Posted on April 04, 2005

zef Says:

Never had any trouble with activation/installation on both a desktop and laptop. Indeed Adobe allows to install and run on two machines at the same time and re-activation after erasing HD’s never gave me any trouble at all.

Same for Macromedia.

Posted on April 04, 2005

mcloki Says:

It really gives me no reason to upgrade. This little poison pill makes me want to wait till CS3 or later. They would need to put in some major features that I need to make it worthwhile. Look at the other program that had activation. Quark Express. No one ever upgraded it unless it was absolutely necessary. How many shops still use Quark 4.12. no reason to upgrade. We do. We didn’t get caught up in the 5.0, 6.0, 6.5 cycle. The program didn’t offer us enough to make the pain of using it worthwhile. I can tell you that this products uptake will be very slow. What’s in it that you need. Another online photostore Whoppee, Retouching brush, Yawn. I like Adobe but does anyone think that if this actually stops piracy they will lower their prices because of it.

Posted on April 04, 2005

CB Says:

As usual, this is going to be a tempest in a teapot, mostly boiled up by honest, upset owners of current Adobe software being called crooks by current Adobe honchos.

Quark did it. Their CEO got the flush. Adobe’s doing it now.
They have a de-facto monopoly on their products and they’re now insuring they keep the bean counters happy increasing market share by ‘...ensure(ing) that a customer has a fair and active license’.

This is NOT gonna stop folks from pirating Adobe software.
As a matter of fact, amongst our ‘community’ there is a pool to see how fast the activation crack is made available (perhaps even before the product ships!).

The activation scheme was (and is) disabled on the PC side.
It will be disabled in short order on the Mac side.

This anti-piracy policy only disadvantages folks who are stupid enough to be honest and try to make sure quality software is still available at a fair price by allowing Adobe (and others) to charge exhorbitent rates for half-tested product licenses that don’t actually buy you ANYTHING. It’s a rental.

Keep in touch with your local Mac consultant. I’d bet money the popular ones are the guys that get the activation crack first.

As for Adobe, hey guys: you’re number 1.

Yep, that’s one finger I’m holding up at the moment.

Guess which one!

CB

Posted on April 04, 2005

Bob Says:

“Activation just takes a couple of seconds and is totally painless,” he adds. “Adobe doesn’t learn anything about you or your systems. Activation is separate from the registration process, which is still optional. We want to fight piracy and not put an undue burden on the honest customer.”

This was absolutely untrue in November when I upgraded to CS1 from Photoshop. It was a miserable experience that kept me on the phone for nearly an hour; the service rep (who at least was in California) would not let me activate without registering, and he warned me that the activation key he gave me was good for exactly one-half-hour and only on the one computer I was then sitting at.

Posted on April 04, 2005

gis Says:

I’ve bought and paid for every version of photoshop since 1 or 2 but now I’m gonna try and find a cracked download. I’ve no use for a company that thinks my time is so valuless that they can take it so freely.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Peter da Silva Says:

“Teton you do not bother to cite one empircial example of piracy promoting the use of a product nor makes it a standard.”

Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office.

All through the ‘80s and ‘90s the ultimate reason people gave me for going with Windows was because they could get all their upgrades and office software from work “for free”. That was what it came down to, after I’d shown them how good the alternatives were. That’s what really killed Word Perfect and drove Star Office to the edge… Open Office wouldn’t be open-source if there had been a market for a cheaper word processor on Windows through the ‘90s. But there wasn’t, not because Office was so good that people willingly paid multiple times as much for Office… but because Office was “free” outside the office.

Whenever pirates tried to justify their piracy by asking “we’re not hurting anyone, Microsoft wouldn’t get our money, ‘cos we can’t afford it anyway” I’d ask them “so, what about the cheaper alternatives”? “Why should I go with a cheap program when I can get Office for free”?

This is the big problem Linux and other free operating systems have in third-world countries. Everyone’s using cracked versions of Windows instead. If Windows really DID have effective activation back in the early ‘90s, so there weren’t all these old copies of Windows 98 and 2000 with activation keys scrawled on the CD-R, there woudln’t be any question of a “third world version” of Windows… the “third world” would belong to Linux.

The only reason Microsoft’s gone with activation is that they feel confident in the strength of their monopoly. If they were still working for market share there wouldn’t be any way they’d do anything effective to discourage piracy, no matter what they claim now.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Karen Doe Says:

ironically, i just got an email from Adobe announcing the new CS2 version.

I quickly wrote back, “Not until activation is removed” will I or “others” purchase a faulty product. I’m spreading the word to stop CS2 sales until this is fixed.

Let’s do to Adobe what happen to eBay when they forced a 25% price increases on Feb 18th. A stock drop of 50% will get their attention.

Please do not purchase CS2 until this is resolved.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Steve Says:

Joshua. Windows XP’s activation scheme was cracked before the thing even shipped officially. Also note that Microsoft has knowingly allowed owners of pirated Windows systems to install service packs in the interest of security etc.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Kloppel Says:

Adobe is SO gonna feel this. Except, I’ll bet there’s 1000’s of h4xx0r5 right now frantically trying to be the first to come up with a krak for Adobe Activation. It’ll probably be available before you even see the Adobe box at your dealer. Information wants to be free.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Tony Martin Says:

I think this is good for Adobe - if making lots of money is the objective. Why? Because they will force many companies to buy site licenses, so at least for the short term, they will make enough money to keep them happy. However, different story for the consumer market. Many of us will not upgrade, and a competitor will have a chance to move into that space, which, in the long run, is bad for Adobe.

Posted on April 04, 2005

tkn Says:

We should have Activation week where everyone switched their installation from their notebook to their desktop 3 times a day and calls Adobe to get their activation…

Posted on April 04, 2005

Joshua Byers Says:

Teton your a moron.  again you cite no evidence for your assertions.  28 years of experience?  So what?  Product activation is a fairly recent phenomena.

Two examples , ms office, and ms windows says it works to stop causal copying.

In response to another moron, Steve, if you bad bothered to follow the context of the discussion you’d realise that product activation is ““It’s a pretty specific tactic used to combat ‘casual copying,’ which is when one person buys a copy and gives it to all this friends. Or when a business owner buys a copy and installs it on all his systems, regardless of the license. It’s one of the most persuasive forms of piracy and one of the easiest to prevent.”” Software activation isn’t designed to stop the hard core crackers and hackers, only the causal pirates.  Joe average pirates if you will.  It is quite effective against those.  Your point is thus moot.  Someone cracks activation?  big deal.  How many people are aware of the cracks or how to use them?  Not a significant amount.  Certainly not enough to justify the end of product activation.  Otherwise MS wouldn’t be still doing it would they?  So far as allowing people with cracked copies to install Sp2, do you have a point here?  I’m not seeing it.  We’re talking about preventing causal copying privacy, what the hell are you talkin about? 

Owned.

Posted on April 04, 2005

gis Says:

Dear Joshua Moron

But it is a hell of a good reason to spend our money on less user-hostile software.

Cost of not being able to read my files at an important presentation: priceless

Posted on April 04, 2005

Joshua Says:

one more moron i had to set straight is dave.  Dave.... one word dave..... license.... license dave.

Do you know what that word means?  It means the user DOES NOT OWN the software.  Adobe owns it.  They LICENSE it to you on THEIR terms.  You are confusing ownership and licensing moron.  Think before YOU speak.  Would you say such a proposter statement to a man who rents a place to someone?  would you say the rentee owns the place?  and can do what they like with it?  If you are going to be a jerk like myself, at least be right about what your saying dave!  Don’t be moron.

If you don’t like adobe’s licensing terms don’t buy their software You have no right to steal it just because YOU think they charge to much.

Whether or not they charge to much is a separate issue from whether they have the right to charge it and whether you have the right to steal it if you believe it is to much.  To many people want to put things into the NEED catagory that really do not belong there so that they can better justify outright theft.(not saying your doing this) If you need food to survive that is one thing to steal to get it.  NO ONE needs software to survive. 

To any morons that would feeably attempt to retort with they NEED it for their business so they can put food on the table, my response is, you do not NEED your business.  You need food or you die.  You don’t die if your business dies.  You go on welfare or find another way to put food on the table.

Owned. (this is someone who does not care about the adage: you’ll catch more bees with honey than you will with vingar.”

Posted on April 04, 2005

Joshua Says:

gis do you have a brain in your head?  You are confusing issues and making a fool of yourself.

If you don’t like product activation don’t buy adobe’s products.

This is a separate issue from whether product activation is a good strategy to stop pirates from ripping off adobe.  Is it an effective strategy to stop causal copying pirates with minimal annoynance to customers?  I’d argue yes it is reasonable. 

and if you are so careless as to not do a run through before your presentation to work out any bugs who’s really at fault?  adobe or yourself?  yourself clearly.

Owned.

Posted on April 04, 2005

gis Says:

Dear joshua

>If you don’t like product activation don’t buy adobe’s products.<

That was my point.Best not.

I’ve had cases of drives and computers failing on the verge of a presentation. Any software that isn’t redy to go instantly, on a drafted substitute should not be used by professionals

Posted on April 04, 2005

Joshua Says:

gis… watch out everyone, computers failing left and right.  oh no!  its such a horribly common occurance that we must prevent software companies from doing anything at all to try to protect their intelectual property. 

Heaven forbide they would do such a destardly thing as protect their property from thieves.  Those evil greedy capitalists.  How dare they benefit from their hard work!

Sigh… excuses excuses gis.  Give me a good arguement, i’m waiting.

Owned.

Posted on April 04, 2005

joshua Says:

for those who havent noticed yet, i’m just a troll trying pick a fight because i’m mad at the world and grumpy.  best solution to trolls is ignore them and eventually they get disinterested and go away.  trolls are a part of life.  they are everywhere.  get use to it.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Pete Says:

What’s with the atrocious spelling in these postings?! Is America’s education system really THAT bad?

Posted on April 04, 2005

Pete Says:

ah pete.... the evitable grammar/spelling troll.  i was waiting for you.  your kind is resented by both the sheeple and the trolls.

and an answer to your question of “Is America’s education system really THAT bad?”

yes.... yes it is.  we do not correct our children’s spelling in our grade schools anymore.  Sad part is, i’m not even making this up.

Posted on April 04, 2005

Dave Says:

Josh,

Try “You’re a moron” instead of “Your a moron” and I’ll take you more seriously.  I was reading this down disappointed I hadn’t made your (see how it works) moron list, but then lo and behold I had my own response.  Thanks!  Well, yes I knew the distinction between licensing and ownership when I posted.  I simply disagree that the license is valid.  I never signed any legal agreement.  I know the software companies would like everyone to believe that EULA are legit, but in a historical sense they are not.  They are unique to the new digital industries.  I do not deny one dollar of revenue to these companies, so I have no qualms with my behavior.

Posted on April 05, 2005

Steve Says:

Joshua. Should ought to be more careful when using the term moron.

Cracked copies of XP ARE very often ‘casual copies’!! Do you really think that official sales of Windows XP actually relate in any way at all to the number of versions of Windows XP in use?

A huge amount of people just never ever bought an official retail version in the first place to pass around later. I’ve never known anyone who has had a retail copy.

ANYONE.

And we are not talking about hard core crackers or hackers. Please. Open your eyes. Kiddies have cracked version of Windows XP.

Lot’s of people get cracked versions installed on BTO machines at the time of purchase. Any idea how many PCs are sold through bucket shops?

Posted on April 05, 2005

Jarkko Says:

Joshua,

I don’t think you should mix up Adobe software with Microsoft software. Everyone (well, not me :P) has Windows and Office at their office so blocking the casual copying might work for them (although even that has been proven questionable).

However, hardcore Adobe software is something only a tiny portion of corporate world is using. Still there’s millions and millions of illegitimate copies of Photoshop in use. Do you really believe average people “borrowed the cd from work” to get Photoshop or Indesign? I didn’t think so.

So you might be right in that the activation can prevent copying Adobe software from work. But I think it’s not worth it for the reasons I stated above, and that it definitely isn’t worth it considering the user confusion, support costs and bad karma the who hassle is causing them.

Posted on April 06, 2005

jimbo Says:

hey
does anybody know what kind of
anti-piracy software they will be using?
will it be PACE? iLok?
these are pretty hard to crack,
if not impossible.
Also, why only target Mac?
Why not windoze?

Posted on April 06, 2005

Peter Says:

Owned.

No… licensed.

Posted on April 06, 2005

Joshua Says:

peter learn how to interpret words in context.

owned does not mean ownership in that context.  do you know how football players do their little dance in the in-zone after they score a touch down?  owned in the context i was using it means that.  to put it another way, it means i’m right and i’m rubbing it in your face.

OWNED.

:-P

Posted on April 06, 2005

Matt Says:

Joshua… It’s bad form to say OWNED to people, and call them morons—especially when the points you are making aren’t revolutionary or even that interesting. Imagine a presidential candidate saying “OWNED!” after making a point in debates on national television. His credibility would immediately be killed, such as yours has been.

On the topic… I’m fine with Adobe instituting activation
as long as it’s flexible. Multiple machine licenses is a must. Being able to recover from a system crash & reinstall with minimal effort (a simple email or phone call) is a must. If Adobe can handle the contingencies well, then their system will be a success. It is key.

Posted on April 07, 2005

Joshua Says:

Ha!

You are all a bunch of impotent freaks! Cower before me! My scheme to drive you all into the hands of THE GIMP is working wonderfully!

MUWHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!

Posted on April 07, 2005

Joshua Says:

that last “Joshua” post about gimp wasn’t from the REAL joshua.

in response to matt… maybe you missed my former post where i said i’m a troll and its best to ignore me?

am i currently the president?

you assume i care if you agree with me.  you also seem to assume i am trying to have a meaningful discussion.

you assume wrong.

OWNED.

Posted on April 07, 2005

Steve Self Says:

I liked tkn’s idea of an “activation-day” swamping of Adobe’s activation support HQ. Appeals to my rebellious anarchist aspect.

Adobe has the right to do whatever they want with their licenses and pricing. Just like we have the right to ignore them and stop sending in tribute (dollars). Vote with your cash.

And I stand corrected on the two computers license… But what about my third and fourth? Maybe I’ll just keep calling and moving the software around as I need it. That’ll be fun.

For what 80% of us use Photoshop for, there are cheap and workable replacements. The rest can pay for the opportunity to continue to be loyal Adobe customers. I really am curious about the upcoming Tiger Core Image technology. Combine this with Adobe’s Activation scheme and we may very well be witnessing the beginning of the end of Photoshop supremacy. Something that is probably better for the overall industry in the long run.

Posted on April 07, 2005

stu willis Says:

“They LICENSE it to you on THEIR terms.”

Just because they specify the terms in their EULA, doesn’t mean its a legally enforceable contract: in fact, there is a growing sphere of court cases which have characterised EULAs are ‘contracts of adhension’ and have refused to enforce the terms of the agreement.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EULA)

In Australia (where I live), provisions of EULAs which are inconsistent with the terms of the copyright act are considered legally invalid.

(Copyright Act (1968) Chapter 7)

Personally, I think activation - if it exists - should be tied to something like the iLok (whicch is like a dongle but more flexible). I would much prefer it if a licence was tied to me as a person rather than to a specific computer/hard drive. I move between machines all the time [2x G4 towers, 1xG5 box, 1xG4 powerbook]

Posted on April 07, 2005

Joan Says:

I am so distressed by the news of fully implemented activation on Adobe’s suite! Phrases like “Activation only takes a few seconds and is perfectly painless” are infuriating to read, because to be able to hold that opinion they’d have had to limit the example scenarios they profiled so narrowly, and yet they feel perfectly justified making huge sweeping generalized statements that will affect such a huge number of individuals. The concept of one user=one computer is ridiculous these days, just to start. Add into the mix whether the computer you’re using at the time even has access to the internet, and you’re already outside the parameters of “quick and painless”.

I lost an entire day dealing with the activation issue with the Macromedia MX 2004 Studio on one occasion, and it’s not gotten any easier each time a new situation presents itself. I’ve contacted Macromedia many times about this issue, citing different situations each time where the activation prevents my using my legitimate purchased copy of their software, and how furious it makes me every time. As people have pointed out, it’s not small change they’re charging for the use of their software, and to charge those kind of prices and then throw up such extensive roadblocks to my actually being able to use it is intolerable. Makes me feel like a moron for having bought it in the first place, and tell me how having your customers angry and feeling rolled is good for business?

I normally work on a Powerbook. Unless my partner’s taken it on a business trip and I suddenly have to use his G5 workstation. Which is a closed system without ‘net access. Or an associate needs the G5 now to edit some video and now I have to switch over to an older desktop. Or I’m on the road and security’s dropped my Powerbook and now I have to use a loaner system while I’m away… all actual situations that caused huge amounts of grief because of the activation. As if any of those situations aren’t stressful enough on their own, you now have to deal with the software manufacturers of products you’ve paid enormous amounts of money to so they can now treat you as a thief and block your access to programs you need to get your work done.

I swore to Macromedia I would NOT be upgrading my Studio if the activation requirement remained, despite using the individual apps since version 1.0 in many cases. I’m disappointed to have to part with Adobe now as well, but it is better to do without future features and improvements than to torture myself with the hell that is activation required software.

Posted on April 10, 2005

Ray Says:

Folks...it’s high time we send Adobe and other huge software companies a message: Don’t ram your needs down our throats.

Yes, adobe has the right to be paid for their software. But there are some subtle dynamics going on here. Photoshop deservedly becomes the standard for image editors, and adobe gradually seems to cop the attitude like “if you want to use our software, you play by our rules, or take a hike.”

One example of this is “feature-itis” - a disease marked by more features, more doo-dads, more gee-gaws and whatzits, often without backward compatibility and without fixing problems in the prior version.

Hey, I pay for the right to use software which comes with certain promises..Don’t try to sell me a new version ‘til you work out the kinks in the old one; I consider THAT to be theft of my money.

When new software ceases to be backwards-compatible, you are forced to upgrade, merely to be able to work with clients who have chosen to upgrade.

That new version may provide no more useful function to you whatesoever, but there you are, shelling out more money.

I suggest we start getting behind open source software development, such as that going on with The Gimp. Gimp is free and has the majority of serious tools we use in Photoshop, and is done for free by coders in their spare time. Sending in a few bucks could speed their efforts, as well as providing real alternatives to the little guys feeling squeezed, Big Brother style, by large corporations.

Posted on April 13, 2005

John Says:

some dude will crack it in under 24 hours!
it will be on P2P networks in weeks
i’ll get a copy from some tech geek even though i don’t care to actually upgrade because i’m afraid my computer can’t handle it. The new features will ####.

Posted on April 15, 2005

ray Says:

haha… cant beleive u guys haven’t figured how to get arround activation yet.  ....hint: act bypass..newgrounds

Posted on April 27, 2005

Dude Says:

So anyone got the Krak or what?

Posted on May 01, 2005

Dr John Says:

A little levity please. No one here is a moron.

Anyway, here’s my illegal but moral adaptation to the activation process.

I am in situations where I need to access a program at various locations. I have installed programs on others’ computers, done the work and uninstalled the program. This complies with one user on one computer. My intent has always been to stay within the intent of the contract.

Activation throws problems into my style. I intend to upgrade to CS2 and pay the big bucks, but first downloaded a splendid warez crack package by the Paradox boys which allows independent activation on a million computers if needed.

The downside to this, understanding the need of a company to deter piracy, is that the normal guy suffers. Result to Adobe is a significant population either going for other software or delving into the dark side of warez and cracks.

I doubt that I will burn in hell for this one. Adobe will get their money, I’ll protect the license from piracy, but will have unobstructed use of the program I paid a hefty price for. What do you think?

Dr John

Posted on June 14, 2005

couger Says:

The ones who are confused about what a license is supoposed to be are the software “sellers”.

Last year my laptop had some issues. I reinstalled win2k but still had the issue. I sent my computer back to the manufaturer for repair but left my win2k disk in the cdrom. I never got the disk back.

I spoke with the computer vendor and microsoft. I aksed for a copy of the program as I still had my license just no disk. I was willing to pay the cost of the disk/shipping etc.  They both refused saying I had to spend $300 for a new copy and get another license.

The license is a license when they own and you rent, but when you need a copy of the program so you can use your license then you have to buy another copy and license. Seems they don’t even really beieve in the license arrangement? Its a scam!

Posted on June 17, 2005

couger Says:

Question:

We all know the activation stuff is cracked by some 13 year old days of it being released - so priracy cant really be the reason.

What happens if adobe goes out of business and the activation phones and servers are closed?  Answer, you have a program you cant reinstall?

What happens if like windows 95, adobe stops support for the program in 5 years?  You have to upgrade to whatever the new version is and pay whatevery they want?  Is it not really a way to make sure you will only be able to use the program for a limited time?

Posted on June 17, 2005

DarkStar Says:

I have the crack.....It works great! It even cracks the activation sequence! Adobe, you should have known better.

Posted on June 20, 2005

Your ZingZang Teddy Says:

I love this debate cause I am so pissed about about the corporate ying yang about this like it’s about piracy. If these wonderful smart business folks would learn that piracy is fostered by unfair greed guised as great social policy and rediculous software prices.

For anyone to say “it works” and is “fair” and “good biz practice is just plain either stupid, or greedy or corporate themselves. The reason MS gets away with it is because they’ve tarmpled every other OS besides apple and got people addicted to it.

Now with Linux finally getting really user friendly ..and cool ---look out ..MS you’ll feel the heat too ---I may switch completely like I think Dreamworks did ...better OS ---cheaper and free software with just as much usefulness ...easy to install work with ..more secure with no activation lockouts.

I’ve used MD 10 ..which was unusually easy and very nice --just a little annoying at first getting use to Linux. Of course there is the big greedy Unix corp trying to shut down linux .....why...cause poeple are begining to like it and it’s getting better than the high dollar crapola to deal with. Most of the major apps are great and free ....some you need to buy but those are cheap ..compared to corpRoSoft.

ANyway point is ...the majority is pissed off about this Activation crap as everyone can see here. No wonder ...for a company to “protect their intellectual property” by violating your privacy (whether legal or not) and breaking into your computer to deactivate it or somehow disable it or otherwise control it is crazy.

That’s like letting Wal-Mart send private RollBackPrice Police into your house to do a search and seizure without giiving you due process (going to court ..needing a warrant). But that’s ok ---to protect corporate rights and not user or consumer rights.

Finally, if they wanted to be fair ...and I’ll never like activation ...but if they wanted to be fair with it ..they’d let users and sm biz’s ...license the software for at least 10 computers or ten discs ten different people can use. They would remove the reinstall crap and hardware change crap and they would no consider indulging in the “remote disable” rights they quietly have cast on us by lobby local state legislatures to pass (which most have).

Ok --I realize this is a rant ...long but I had to say it. Hope all are not offended by a long post.

Posted on July 02, 2005

surferboy Says:

Is there any Mac-KeyGen for the activation on the web ?

I have one Upgrade - but 2 Macs…

Steffen

Posted on July 20, 2005

adobe customer service Says:

hello,
i used to work for adobe customer service. just a few quick notes, adobe outsources a company in portland, oregon. so it’s still providing jobs in the US.

if you HDD crashes and you’ve taken up all your activations, you will have to call into customer service so they can override your activation. the only hassle is calling in and possibly being on hold for 10 minutes. If you need an activation on a 3rd computer, just call in and say that you threw out your old computer and bought a new one. there is absolutely no way for adobe to tell if you’re using both softwares at the same time or if you’re using 10 copies of their software with the same serial number at the same time. i guarentee you. it would be illegal for adobe to monitor your computer over the internet.

if you look at adobe’s quarter sales sales for fiscal year 2005 compared to 2004, it’s up by $49.6 million even with bad customer service and piracy. Disney is officially moving from correl and quark and moving to adobe products. They couldn’t care anything less about pirating because the way they’re seeing it, you’re advertising for them as someone mentioned above.
They just want to be in your system. Perfect example is acrobat reader.

As long as they keep buying out companies, they’re going to get more money despite piracy, again, they don’t care. for example, Pagemaker used to be Aldus Corp’s product, after adobe bought it out, they developed indesign. Jetforms was bought out and put into Acrobat std and professional. and obiously now MM.

another major argument, there is always going to be that group of people that you can’t help due to bugs, etc. it’s a small percentage, but it seems like a big deal because those with the problem, sound off. people who are working perfectly with adobe just keeps on moving.

feel free to pirate, right now i’m using premiere pro 1.5, photoshop cs2, golive cs2, after effects 6.5 professional, and acrobat 7 professional.

Posted on August 10, 2005

hamid Says:

activation

Posted on November 24, 2005

Jay Wells Says:

Personally, I can tolerate the first activation, but when I have major computer problems that are almost making me swear off computers, finally manage to get those fixed, then have salt rubbed in the wounds by having to again activate several pieces of software that I paid for and already activated--that really fries my goat! And I don’t want to hear that it’s a quick and simple Internet process: For instance; because my copy of XP was installed by the mfr. Internet re-activation doesn’t work for me, so it’s a mojor hassle to even get connected to a live person at Microsoft without paying a $35.00 support fee.

Posted on December 07, 2005

Joshua Says:

So I decided to use the cracked version of CS2 after my hard drive crashed and Adobe WOULD NOT reinstate my authorization.

I hate toe admit it, but you guys were right.

Owned.

Posted on December 08, 2005

Vibhor Garg Says:

My harddisk crashed and i need to reinstall the photoshop but whenever i m putting the key its rejecting.I really dont know what to do.Now i m thinking about the cracker because i m not stealing anything i purchased it but unfortunately machine crashed.I need some one help who can tell me how to crack it.

Posted on December 19, 2005

Barb Says:

The main problem I have with this can be exemplified by my experiences with MS.  I purchased a full copy of Office 97 back in the day for big bucks.  I spent nearly as much on the Office XP upgrade.

Each of these I run on a legally licensed copy of Windows XP Professional.  The problem here is that as a developer who is constantly put all kinds of crap on my machine, I need to rebuild my machine about twice a year for performance’s sake.  Which quickly meant that I couldn’t activate my MS software conveniently online anymore.

I only have this problem because I use legal copies.  Those really interested in stealing this stuff have not been stopped, and they have found ways to bypass this inconvenience.  In the long term, digital rights management only punishes legal uses.

Take for example the Sony rootkit DRM furor.  The only people who put their machines in jeopardy were those who legally purchase Sony CDs.  Anyone with ripped copies of the CDs or songs were not at risk at all.  Does that even make sense?

Or take my friend who got all excited about the early days of eBooks.  The book was DRMed in Adobe Acrobat 5 format.  Naturally he had to upgrade his Adobe Reader to 6 and eventually 7.  But the eBook no longer works in those versions.  So does my friend have to repurchase the book everytime Adobe deems in necessary to release a new version?  I guess so, according to Adobe.  The more practical solution for those of us not making Adobe money was to find a crack or illegal version of said eBook.

In the really long term, these types of attitudes among software companies will hurt them in the long run.  Treat customers like criminals while selling a product that is a “want” not a “need”.  See how long we keep forking over the money.

Posted on February 16, 2006